Mouth rot - is it contagious?
  • AnuarAnuar January 2011
    Posts: 677
    Dear All,

    Happy new year.

    A few days ago I discovered the bottom/side jaw of one of my kois was nearly wasted with some part of the flesh on the side of the mouth gone. As it is literally rotten, I think it should be mouth rot caused by columnaris. It must have been there for a while as I did not notice it at all with the koi swimming as normal and eating. It is not visible from the top but I noticed the koi shaking the head for a couple of seconds as if she was choked, and only discovered it when she was bowled up for close inspection.

    The first thing I did was slowly bringing up the salinity of the main pond to 0.5 and isolated the affected fish into the qt. I treated her for 3 days with melafix, but thereafter decided to change to blagdon anti bacteria and fungus. She is looking normal now but the wasted part of the mouth shows no improvement at all. I also gambled by adding salt to 0.30 into the qt hoping the salinity level will help the absorption of the medication. Btw, the medication contains malachite green.

    Now I am wondering if this disease is contagious and whether the salting the main pond will help to contain the spreading of the bacteria. And yes, the affected koi was a new addition - I hope this a lesson to all...

    Anybody has gone through such ordeal before? Is mouth rot contagious? What would be the best treatment (other than injection)? Do you know whether the wasted flesh will return? Sorry I am not able to take any pict as I could not shoot with one hand holding the koi upside down, none of my family member would help.

    Thanks guys.

  • farikfarik January 2011
    Posts: 317
    Bro Anuar,
    It is contagious....those early days used to kena...1 fella kena a few others will sometime start.Treatment i used was jab and put pp on the mouth but after it healed the mouth will be senget or like sompek( chipped off).Have to treat whole pond for bacteria.
  • ikankoikauikankoikau January 2011
    Posts: 992
    Bro Anuar,
    Sorry to hear about your problem. I had the same problem with one of my new koi and it took a while to get effective treatment. What you did was correct IMHO. But I didn't add any salt to the blagdon interpet treatment. For me, it works well without the salt and i am not sure if salt should be added. But I always use the Blagdon Anti Ulcer. For suspected gill bacteria disease, open wound, ulcer or anything that I am not sure, I will go for the Anti Ulcer. For QT treatment Blagdon(Interpet) is very good so far. Dose it twice with 2 or 3 days apart. Some may dose it 4 days apart.

    On initial treatment(or during injection procedure) I will apply PP on the affacted part to kill the bacteria around that region. On the next 3 to 4 injections, I will apply iodine with/without propolis.

    For your problem, I believe it will take a while to fully recovered but as long the condition shows improvement, it will be good. Even after 2 weeks, the skin may not be fully recovered but the new
    skin will cover at least the flash. With antibiotic injected, the koi should slowly recovered in the QT or pond. Mouth rot especially the soft skin on lips or chin could be really stubborn.

    As for your pond, you should add 0.2gram per ton of Malachite Green or Misaki Anti Bacteria. Don't add salt. Treat your pond while you treat the affected koi. When you transfer back the koi, add 0.15 to 0.3% salt to the pond. Whether or not you problem is contagious, I strongly believed that it is. Unless you treat the pond fast enough. Cx other kois for the same problem will be good. By the way, I always keep 2 or more kois in the QT. Single koi in the QT will be very lonely for her. Not good for sick koi. :-)

    On more thing, always cx your QT water quality daily until no ammonia or nitrite present. If needed, change 50% water and add the dose for the whole volume of water in the QT again.
    Good luck bro.

    Post edited by ikankoikau at 2011-01-04 09:53:58 am
  • etanoetano January 2011
    Posts: 470
    Bro Anuar, mouth rotting is very bad problem. Rotted mouth can hardly recover also in terms of growing back the missing parts. Sorry to hear your problem and I think you should inspect every koi.
    MyKoiKichi.com ~ A new koi blog.
  • AnuarAnuar January 2011
    Posts: 677
    Thank you brothers for your response.

    I agree that antibiotic jab would be the best but I have not reach this stage yet and further,doing it in 3 consecutive days will be a challenge for me. No doubt capt made it look so easy but it is not for me especially for larger sized fish.

    Capt, the instruction on the blagdon bottle is to split the required dosage into 7 days and treat the affected fish daily. Is it okay to double dose or triple dose but make the interval longer? And yes, the koi is accompanied by a male shiro who has red tail fin and is always susceptible to pop eye and reddening of Fins.

    Bro Farik, I'll be happy if the fish recover and do not expect the mouth to be fully healed. It is not even visible from my view maahh... But a bit sayanglah because this koi has the best coloration among all my showas...

    Bro Elmen, yes I am planning to inspect every kois within the next few days, for now they look okay from the top.

    Regards.
  • ikankoikauikankoikau January 2011
    Posts: 992
    Bro, for Blagdon Anti Bacteria and Fungus could have different dosage or application. For Blagdon Anti Ulcer is not clearly mentioned. You should just follow the instruction on the bottle. Andy Atarikoi, he suggested to add second dosage after 4 days but I did it in 2 or 3 days(for Anti Ulcer). but if the Bac and Fungus bottle says so, I believe you should just follow it. My worry is if the water para indicates the present of ammonia or nitrite(esp on the first day of quarantine) we still hv to do partial water change and how much to apply then? I will go for the full strength for that day dosage rather than to half it(considering 50% water changed).

    If for Misaki anti bac, you also need to apply the total dosage within 7 days(by divinding total dosage needed by 7 and add daily) but I don't have that much time so I normally divided it by 3 and add the dosage for 3 days. Also ok according to Andy.
    Thank God, so far it worked well for my kois in QT and in the pond.
  • ShukriShukri February 2011
    Posts: 4,870
    Bro Borman,
    3 of my fishes were down with mouth rot, one of them is my Kawakami Goshiki. Thanks to Amikacin, all 3 healed within 3 injections, once a day.
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • AnuarAnuar March 2011
    Posts: 677
    Managed to bowl up the fella, she is recovering nicely. The side of the mouth was nearly fully wasted but new tissues have started to fill. I think another 3 months before she fully recover and hopefully with a new whisker :)
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